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	<title>Comments for h-madness</title>
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	<link>http://historypsychiatry.com</link>
	<description>This blog follows the history of psychiatry</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 02:31:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on DSM-V: Getting Closer to Pathologizing Everyone? by Ronald Pies MD</title>
		<link>http://historypsychiatry.com/2010/03/15/dsm-v-getting-closer-to-pathologizing-everyone/#comment-2396</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronald Pies MD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 02:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://historypsychiatry.wordpress.com/?p=398#comment-2396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is technically not true that &quot;...anyone who is sad, fails to derive pleasure from usual activities, finds it difficult to concentrate, and has sleep and appetite difficulties for a mere two weeks could be diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder,&quot; either using DSM-IV or  the proposed DSM-5 draft criteria. Those features alone would not meet the full criteria set required for MDD. The person would also need to meet the &quot;C&quot; criterion [in DSM-IV] of &quot;clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning.&quot; Moreover, simply being &quot;sad&quot; does not satisfy the criterion of having &quot;depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day...&quot; for 2 weeks. 

Most recently bereaved individuals will not meet full DSM criteria for MDD; do not have a &quot;disorder&quot;; and do not need clinical treatment. Furthermore, there are profound phenomenological differences between ordinary grief and MDD that the experienced psychiatrist will recognize. For example, the ability to be consoled, as Kay Jamison has observed, is typically present in ordinary grief, but rarely in MDD. 

That said, many of us believe that the 2-week minimum duration is too short, in most cases, to make a confident diagnosis after bereavement or any other major loss, such as divorce. However, this is irrelevant to the validity of the bereavement exclusion, (BE) and focusing on the 2-week minimum both misses the real point of the debate, and obfuscates the many underlying problems with the BE; e.g., there are no controlled, clinical studies (as contrasted with community survey data) of bereaved, MDD patients to support the BE.  

 The 2-week minimum is a separate problem that must be addressed separately, and in no way justifies continuing the BE. Leaving the BE in the DSM-5 will not fix the general problem of the 2-week interval.  Indeed, elimination of the BE from DSM-5 would also rid us of the bogus, 2-month limit on the duration of &quot;normal&quot; bereavement, for which there is no scientific or clinical basis. Ordinary grief related to bereavement is quite distinct from MDD, and may go on for months or even years; it is not a disorder, nor does it require treatment, if the grieving person functions adequately in the social, vocational, and interpersonal spheres. 


I hope that readers will take a look at my upcoming blog on the Psychcentral website, entitled, &quot;Grief, Bereavement, and the DSM-5: How the Public is Being Misinformed.&quot; Also, I have developed a preliminary screening instrument, called the PBPI, aimed at helping clinicians distinguish, phenomenologically, between ordinary grief and MDD. It may be found on the Psychiatric Times website, after a free registration step, under the title, &quot;After Bereavement, Is It “Normal Grief” or Major Depression? The PBPI, A Potential Assessment Tool.&quot; 

Sincerely,
Ronald Pies MD

For further reading:

Pies R. The two worlds of grief and depression. http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/02/23/the-two-worlds-of-grief-and-depression/. Accessed January 27, 2012.

 Zisook S, Shear K: Grief and bereavement: what psychiatrists need to know. World Psychiatry. 2009;8:67-74.

Zisook S, Reynolds CF 3rd, Pies R, et al. Bereavement, complicated grief, and DSM, part 1: depression. J Clin Psychiatry. 2010;71:955-956.

Lamb K, Pies R, Zisook S. The Bereavement Exclusion for the diagnosis of major depression: to be or not to be? Psychiatry (Edgmont). 2010;7:19-25.

Jamison KR. Nothing Was the Same. New York: Vintage Books; 2011]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is technically not true that &#8220;&#8230;anyone who is sad, fails to derive pleasure from usual activities, finds it difficult to concentrate, and has sleep and appetite difficulties for a mere two weeks could be diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder,&#8221; either using DSM-IV or  the proposed DSM-5 draft criteria. Those features alone would not meet the full criteria set required for MDD. The person would also need to meet the &#8220;C&#8221; criterion [in DSM-IV] of &#8220;clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning.&#8221; Moreover, simply being &#8220;sad&#8221; does not satisfy the criterion of having &#8220;depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day&#8230;&#8221; for 2 weeks. </p>
<p>Most recently bereaved individuals will not meet full DSM criteria for MDD; do not have a &#8220;disorder&#8221;; and do not need clinical treatment. Furthermore, there are profound phenomenological differences between ordinary grief and MDD that the experienced psychiatrist will recognize. For example, the ability to be consoled, as Kay Jamison has observed, is typically present in ordinary grief, but rarely in MDD. </p>
<p>That said, many of us believe that the 2-week minimum duration is too short, in most cases, to make a confident diagnosis after bereavement or any other major loss, such as divorce. However, this is irrelevant to the validity of the bereavement exclusion, (BE) and focusing on the 2-week minimum both misses the real point of the debate, and obfuscates the many underlying problems with the BE; e.g., there are no controlled, clinical studies (as contrasted with community survey data) of bereaved, MDD patients to support the BE.  </p>
<p> The 2-week minimum is a separate problem that must be addressed separately, and in no way justifies continuing the BE. Leaving the BE in the DSM-5 will not fix the general problem of the 2-week interval.  Indeed, elimination of the BE from DSM-5 would also rid us of the bogus, 2-month limit on the duration of &#8220;normal&#8221; bereavement, for which there is no scientific or clinical basis. Ordinary grief related to bereavement is quite distinct from MDD, and may go on for months or even years; it is not a disorder, nor does it require treatment, if the grieving person functions adequately in the social, vocational, and interpersonal spheres. </p>
<p>I hope that readers will take a look at my upcoming blog on the Psychcentral website, entitled, &#8220;Grief, Bereavement, and the DSM-5: How the Public is Being Misinformed.&#8221; Also, I have developed a preliminary screening instrument, called the PBPI, aimed at helping clinicians distinguish, phenomenologically, between ordinary grief and MDD. It may be found on the Psychiatric Times website, after a free registration step, under the title, &#8220;After Bereavement, Is It “Normal Grief” or Major Depression? The PBPI, A Potential Assessment Tool.&#8221; </p>
<p>Sincerely,<br />
Ronald Pies MD</p>
<p>For further reading:</p>
<p>Pies R. The two worlds of grief and depression. <a href="http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/02/23/the-two-worlds-of-grief-and-depression/" rel="nofollow">http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/02/23/the-two-worlds-of-grief-and-depression/</a>. Accessed January 27, 2012.</p>
<p> Zisook S, Shear K: Grief and bereavement: what psychiatrists need to know. World Psychiatry. 2009;8:67-74.</p>
<p>Zisook S, Reynolds CF 3rd, Pies R, et al. Bereavement, complicated grief, and DSM, part 1: depression. J Clin Psychiatry. 2010;71:955-956.</p>
<p>Lamb K, Pies R, Zisook S. The Bereavement Exclusion for the diagnosis of major depression: to be or not to be? Psychiatry (Edgmont). 2010;7:19-25.</p>
<p>Jamison KR. Nothing Was the Same. New York: Vintage Books; 2011</p>
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		<title>Comment on DSM-V: Getting Closer to Pathologizing Everyone? by Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://historypsychiatry.com/2010/03/15/dsm-v-getting-closer-to-pathologizing-everyone/#comment-2395</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 02:30:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://historypsychiatry.wordpress.com/?p=398#comment-2395</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is technically not true that &quot;...anyone who is sad, fails to derive pleasure from usual activities, finds it difficult to concentrate, and has sleep and appetite difficulties for a mere two weeks could be diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder,&quot; either using DSM-IV or  the proposed DSM-5 draft criteria. Those features alone would not meet the full criteria set required for MDD. The person would also need to meet the &quot;C&quot; criterion [in DSM-IV] of &quot;clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning.&quot; Moreover, simply being &quot;sad&quot; does not satisfy the criterion of having &quot;depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day...&quot; for 2 weeks. 

Most recently bereaved individuals will not meet full DSM criteria for MDD; do not have a &quot;disorder&quot;; and do not need clinical treatment. Furthermore, there are profound phenomenological differences between ordinary grief and MDD that the experienced psychiatrist will recognize. For example, the ability to be consoled, as Kay Jamison has observed, is typically present in ordinary grief, but rarely in MDD. 

That said, many of us believe that the 2-week minimum duration is too short, in most cases, to make a confident diagnosis after bereavement or any other major loss, such as divorce. However, this is irrelevant to the validity of the bereavement exclusion, (BE) and focusing on the 2-week minimum both misses the real point of the debate, and obfuscates the many underlying problems with the BE; e.g., there are no controlled, clinical studies (as contrasted with community survey data) of bereaved, MDD patients to support the BE.  

 The 2-week minimum is a separate problem that must be addressed separately, and in no way justifies continuing the BE. Leaving the BE in the DSM-5 will not fix the general problem of the 2-week interval.  Indeed, elimination of the BE from DSM-5 would also rid us of the bogus, 2-month limit on the duration of &quot;normal&quot; bereavement, for which there is no scientific or clinical basis. Ordinary grief related to bereavement is quite distinct from MDD, and may go on for months or even years; it is not a disorder, nor does it require treatment, if the grieving person functions adequately in the social, vocational, and interpersonal spheres. 


I hope that readers will take a look at my upcoming blog on the Psychcentral website, entitled, &quot;Grief, Bereavement, and the DSM-5: How the Public is Being Misinformed.&quot; Also, I have developed a preliminary screening instrument, called the PBPI, aimed at helping clinicians distinguish, phenomenologically, between ordinary grief and MDD. It may be found on the Psychiatric Times website, after a free registration step, under the title, &quot;After Bereavement, Is It “Normal Grief” or Major Depression? The PBPI, A Potential Assessment Tool.&quot; 

Sincerely,
Ronald Pies MD

For further reading:

Pies R. The two worlds of grief and depression. http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/02/23/the-two-worlds-of-grief-and-depression/. Accessed January 27, 2012.

 Zisook S, Shear K: Grief and bereavement: what psychiatrists need to know. World Psychiatry. 2009;8:67-74.

Zisook S, Reynolds CF 3rd, Pies R, et al. Bereavement, complicated grief, and DSM, part 1: depression. J Clin Psychiatry. 2010;71:955-956.

Lamb K, Pies R, Zisook S. The Bereavement Exclusion for the diagnosis of major depression: to be or not to be? Psychiatry (Edgmont). 2010;7:19-25.

Jamison KR. Nothing Was the Same. New York: Vintage Books; 2011]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is technically not true that &#8220;&#8230;anyone who is sad, fails to derive pleasure from usual activities, finds it difficult to concentrate, and has sleep and appetite difficulties for a mere two weeks could be diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder,&#8221; either using DSM-IV or  the proposed DSM-5 draft criteria. Those features alone would not meet the full criteria set required for MDD. The person would also need to meet the &#8220;C&#8221; criterion [in DSM-IV] of &#8220;clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning.&#8221; Moreover, simply being &#8220;sad&#8221; does not satisfy the criterion of having &#8220;depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day&#8230;&#8221; for 2 weeks. </p>
<p>Most recently bereaved individuals will not meet full DSM criteria for MDD; do not have a &#8220;disorder&#8221;; and do not need clinical treatment. Furthermore, there are profound phenomenological differences between ordinary grief and MDD that the experienced psychiatrist will recognize. For example, the ability to be consoled, as Kay Jamison has observed, is typically present in ordinary grief, but rarely in MDD. </p>
<p>That said, many of us believe that the 2-week minimum duration is too short, in most cases, to make a confident diagnosis after bereavement or any other major loss, such as divorce. However, this is irrelevant to the validity of the bereavement exclusion, (BE) and focusing on the 2-week minimum both misses the real point of the debate, and obfuscates the many underlying problems with the BE; e.g., there are no controlled, clinical studies (as contrasted with community survey data) of bereaved, MDD patients to support the BE.  </p>
<p> The 2-week minimum is a separate problem that must be addressed separately, and in no way justifies continuing the BE. Leaving the BE in the DSM-5 will not fix the general problem of the 2-week interval.  Indeed, elimination of the BE from DSM-5 would also rid us of the bogus, 2-month limit on the duration of &#8220;normal&#8221; bereavement, for which there is no scientific or clinical basis. Ordinary grief related to bereavement is quite distinct from MDD, and may go on for months or even years; it is not a disorder, nor does it require treatment, if the grieving person functions adequately in the social, vocational, and interpersonal spheres. </p>
<p>I hope that readers will take a look at my upcoming blog on the Psychcentral website, entitled, &#8220;Grief, Bereavement, and the DSM-5: How the Public is Being Misinformed.&#8221; Also, I have developed a preliminary screening instrument, called the PBPI, aimed at helping clinicians distinguish, phenomenologically, between ordinary grief and MDD. It may be found on the Psychiatric Times website, after a free registration step, under the title, &#8220;After Bereavement, Is It “Normal Grief” or Major Depression? The PBPI, A Potential Assessment Tool.&#8221; </p>
<p>Sincerely,<br />
Ronald Pies MD</p>
<p>For further reading:</p>
<p>Pies R. The two worlds of grief and depression. <a href="http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/02/23/the-two-worlds-of-grief-and-depression/" rel="nofollow">http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/02/23/the-two-worlds-of-grief-and-depression/</a>. Accessed January 27, 2012.</p>
<p> Zisook S, Shear K: Grief and bereavement: what psychiatrists need to know. World Psychiatry. 2009;8:67-74.</p>
<p>Zisook S, Reynolds CF 3rd, Pies R, et al. Bereavement, complicated grief, and DSM, part 1: depression. J Clin Psychiatry. 2010;71:955-956.</p>
<p>Lamb K, Pies R, Zisook S. The Bereavement Exclusion for the diagnosis of major depression: to be or not to be? Psychiatry (Edgmont). 2010;7:19-25.</p>
<p>Jamison KR. Nothing Was the Same. New York: Vintage Books; 2011</p>
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		<title>Comment on Grief Exclusion and DSM V by clarespark</title>
		<link>http://historypsychiatry.com/2012/02/20/grief-exclusion-and-dsm-v/#comment-2373</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[clarespark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 04:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://historypsychiatry.com/?p=3760#comment-2373</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This subject, the approved period of time spent in grief and subsequent depression, cries out for the kind of analysis that mental health professionals were supposed to provide. How can there be any mechanical guide to such a huge subject as object loss? I imagine that any treatment smacking of Freud is now too expensive. I wrote about other objections to Freud here: http://clarespark.com/2012/02/19/the-romantic-repudiation-of-freud-co/. I wonder if there is more than an economic motive to the jerking around of patients.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This subject, the approved period of time spent in grief and subsequent depression, cries out for the kind of analysis that mental health professionals were supposed to provide. How can there be any mechanical guide to such a huge subject as object loss? I imagine that any treatment smacking of Freud is now too expensive. I wrote about other objections to Freud here: <a href="http://clarespark.com/2012/02/19/the-romantic-repudiation-of-freud-co/" rel="nofollow">http://clarespark.com/2012/02/19/the-romantic-repudiation-of-freud-co/</a>. I wonder if there is more than an economic motive to the jerking around of patients.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question from a reader on Native Americans by Daisy V. Domínguez (@daisilla)</title>
		<link>http://historypsychiatry.com/2011/11/30/question-from-a-reader-on-native-americans/#comment-2273</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daisy V. Domínguez (@daisilla)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 03:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://historypsychiatry.wordpress.com/?p=3545#comment-2273</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Kathryn,

There is no exact date, but I found this: Mental Health Among Natives: A Collection of Articles and Reports from Various Sources. 1900s. May only be available at a university in Nova Scotia, though...

Also, maybe Carla Joinson, author of the Canton Asylum for Insane Indians blog, may have some leads: http://cantonasylumforinsaneindians.com/history_blog/

Daisy]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Kathryn,</p>
<p>There is no exact date, but I found this: Mental Health Among Natives: A Collection of Articles and Reports from Various Sources. 1900s. May only be available at a university in Nova Scotia, though&#8230;</p>
<p>Also, maybe Carla Joinson, author of the Canton Asylum for Insane Indians blog, may have some leads: <a href="http://cantonasylumforinsaneindians.com/history_blog/" rel="nofollow">http://cantonasylumforinsaneindians.com/history_blog/</a></p>
<p>Daisy</p>
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		<title>Comment on New Book Announcement &#8211; American Madness by benoitmajerus</title>
		<link>http://historypsychiatry.com/2011/10/08/new-book-announcement-american-madness/#comment-2245</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[benoitmajerus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 04:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://historypsychiatry.wordpress.com/?p=3300#comment-2245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[An interview with the author on the Harvard University Press blog: http://harvardpress.typepad.com/hup_publicity/2012/01/the-rise-and-fall-of-american-madness.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interview with the author on the Harvard University Press blog: <a href="http://harvardpress.typepad.com/hup_publicity/2012/01/the-rise-and-fall-of-american-madness.html" rel="nofollow">http://harvardpress.typepad.com/hup_publicity/2012/01/the-rise-and-fall-of-american-madness.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Call for Papers &#8211; The Two Cultures: Visual Art and Science c.1800-2011 by All The News That's Fit to Link &#124; Medical Heritage Library</title>
		<link>http://historypsychiatry.com/2012/01/19/call-for-papers-the-two-cultures-visual-art-and-science-c-1800-2011/#comment-2188</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[All The News That's Fit to Link &#124; Medical Heritage Library]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 13:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://historypsychiatry.com/?p=3638#comment-2188</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] call for papers, this time from a conference on the intersection of the visual arts and science to be held at the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] call for papers, this time from a conference on the intersection of the visual arts and science to be held at the [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Call for Papers &#8211; The Two Cultures: Visual Art and Science c.1800-2011 by Clare Spark</title>
		<link>http://historypsychiatry.com/2012/01/19/call-for-papers-the-two-cultures-visual-art-and-science-c-1800-2011/#comment-2184</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clare Spark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://historypsychiatry.com/?p=3638#comment-2184</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wrote about the organic conservative response to science and its materialist epistemology here: http://clarespark.com/2010/02/10/a-brooding-meditation-on-intimacy-and-distance/. The Romantics were especially threatened by the presumed loss of poetry, the disenchantment of the world, that close, empirical observation encouraged.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote about the organic conservative response to science and its materialist epistemology here: <a href="http://clarespark.com/2010/02/10/a-brooding-meditation-on-intimacy-and-distance/" rel="nofollow">http://clarespark.com/2010/02/10/a-brooding-meditation-on-intimacy-and-distance/</a>. The Romantics were especially threatened by the presumed loss of poetry, the disenchantment of the world, that close, empirical observation encouraged.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Call for Papers &#8211; The Two Cultures: Visual Art and Science c.1800-2011 by Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://historypsychiatry.com/2012/01/19/call-for-papers-the-two-cultures-visual-art-and-science-c-1800-2011/#comment-2183</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://historypsychiatry.com/?p=3638#comment-2183</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Only an organicist would think to link science and the humanities. I wrote about that ideology here: http://clarespark.com/2010/02/10/a-brooding-meditation-on-intimacy-and-distance/. The right-wing romantics spoke as one against the poetry-destroying new sciences, including materialist epistemologies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only an organicist would think to link science and the humanities. I wrote about that ideology here: <a href="http://clarespark.com/2010/02/10/a-brooding-meditation-on-intimacy-and-distance/" rel="nofollow">http://clarespark.com/2010/02/10/a-brooding-meditation-on-intimacy-and-distance/</a>. The right-wing romantics spoke as one against the poetry-destroying new sciences, including materialist epistemologies.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Happy Birthday h-madness by Massat</title>
		<link>http://historypsychiatry.com/2012/01/20/happy-birthday-h-madness-2/#comment-2149</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Massat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 16:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://historypsychiatry.com/?p=3631#comment-2149</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Congratulation, I&#039;m a fan! To be continued on 2012...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulation, I&#8217;m a fan! To be continued on 2012&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Review &#8211; Ethan Watters. Crazy Like Us: The Globalization of the American Psyche. New York: Free Press, 2010. by Happy Birthday h-madness &#171; h-madness</title>
		<link>http://historypsychiatry.com/2010/07/24/review-ethan-watters-crazy-like-us-the-globalization-of-the-american-psyche-new-york-free-press-2010/#comment-2148</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Happy Birthday h-madness &#171; h-madness]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://historypsychiatry.wordpress.com/?p=923#comment-2148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Review – Ethan Watters. Crazy Like Us: The Globalization of the American Psyche by Hans Pols [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Review – Ethan Watters. Crazy Like Us: The Globalization of the American Psyche by Hans Pols [...]</p>
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